LOL, totally out of context of course! That bit of the book (which is, of course, the finale of a strongly Christian series) is about Hermione’s struggle with belief, which she finds difficult in the face of her supremely literal intelligence. That little section follows right after this one:
“But then… do you mean…” said Hermione slowly, and Harry could tell that she was trying to keep any trace of skepticism out of her voice, “that you believe these objects – these Hallows – really exist?”
Xenophilius raised his eyebrows again.
“Well, of course.”
“But,” said Hermione, and Harry could hear her restraint starting to crack, “Mr. Lovegood, how can you possibly believe -?”
“Luna has told me all about you, young lady,” said Xenophilius. “You are, I gather, not unintelligent, but painfully limited. Narrow. Close-minded.”
… and of course, the book goes on to show that Hermione was wrong, that the deathly hallows do exist, and that by making the ultimate sacrifice Harry can save the world from evil.
Strong Christian series? Talk about taking things out of context!
And of course, I’m sure you’re not insinuating that because Hermione’s unbelief turned out to be wrong (something that was proven wrong by EVIDENCE, by the way) that those of us who don’t believe in God must also be wrong.
If that’s what you’re saying, then it sounds like everyone must believe everything and ALL THE THINGS MUST BE TRUE.
Yes, JK Rowling is herself a Christian and after the series was finished, she explained that she had written the book, in part, to mirror her own search for God. The whole series is pretty clearly Christian and became so ridiculously popular because of that satirical article in ‘The Onion’ which somehow convinced some right-wing fundamentalists from the US that it was evil/satanic – basically by taking some of the first book totally out of context (quoting Voldemort as if he were espousing Rowling’s beliefs, for instance). The seventh book, of course, with its very strong Christian content and the dramatic Good Friday/Easter analogies cleared up any doubt about Rowling’s beliefs, even before she had gone public with them.
And no, nobody’s saying that all things ARE true, of course. But that chapter about Hermione’s steps into the scary realm of the unknown is basically exploring the idea that many things MIGHT be true even if they don’t seem, rationally, to be the case.
Sure, but nobody’s pushing ‘blind belief’, as far as I know. Except, perhaps, those right-wing fundamentalists, who, from my perspective, have rather missed the point of the Gospel. Hermione does NOT believe in the stone in the passage, and Mr Lovegood is helping her to see that – at that point – she can neither prove nor disprove its existence. She’d like the world to be logical and provable, but it isn’t that way – there’s always more to learn, and much that we don’t understand. I made the comment that it’s taken out of context because whoever produced that image must have deliberately removed the sections immediately before and after, so as to make it seem that she is being rational and logical, when (as is clear from the context) she is simply being challenged to be a bit more open-minded. Which would appear to be JK Rowling’s aim in the chapter as a whole.
“Blind” belief sounds like something random, picked out of thin air, with no grounds at all for believing. The kind of Alice in Wonderland idea of believing three impossible things before breakfast. Perhaps you define it differently. ‘Pushing’ blind belief sounds like the idea of parents insisting that the tooth fairy is true and getting upset when their child suspects it may not be. In that passage from HP which you quoted, nothing is being pushed anyway – Hermione is being invited to consider something outside her current worldview.
As for faith in general, I don’t think people would be willing to die their beliefs if they were truly blind ones. Your perspective may be that they are misguided or wrong, but pretty much everyone I know with any Christian faith (including myself) has been through many periods of doubting and questioning. This is encouraged in most Christian circles, to the extent that it leads people to better understanding of what it is that Jesus came to do.
Your own holy scriptures define faith as blind belief. Hebrews 11:1.
And let’s face it – it is. You have no proof that God exists. You have never seen him. You have never heard him speak. You have never felt him touch you.
You, and others who share your beliefs (hell, even me, once upon a time), will SAY all of those things have happened. It’s metaphor, allegory, and emotional. Those are not things that can be used in a debate such as this one.
All of this points back to the idea that faith, in its simplest form, is blind belief.
You believe because you feel it, not because you can see it.
“Blind” belief sounds like something random, picked out of thin air, with no grounds at all for believing.
It’s random in the same way that astrology is random. Any astrologer worth their salt can give a list of justifications as long as your arm for their beliefs. But ultimately they all boil down to:
1) I did it like this and it just felt right; or
2) Someone else did it like this and it just felt right for them.
Skeptics tend to call this sort of belief “blind” because it really doesn’t matter whether astrology is scientifically accurate (it isn’t), predictive (it isn’t) or helpful (your mileage may vary). People will still believe.
Now, any astrologer reading this will probably feel slighted. Obviously there are idiot “astrologers” out there that believe any nonsense, but they’re different! They’ve done the research, they’ve thought things through, they’ve experimented, they’ve analysed.
Unfortunately, if you talk things through with them, it turns out that all they’ve really analysed is:
1) Whether doing it like this feels right to them; or
2) Whether someone else … you get the idea.
That’s roughly the position us atheists are in with Christians. You keep saying that your belief isn’t blind, but when we talk it through with you it all seems to come down to those two points.
Prove me wrong. Lay out a case for belief in terms of concrete evidence or valid logic. Show that belief in God is different from belief in Sagittarius. If you can’t or won’t, but you still want to carry on believing, that’s your prerogative. In that case, though, I’m afraid I’ll be using the phrase “blind faith” for a long time to come.
I love the HP series, and frankly, i care not if Rowling wrote them with Christian themes and attitudes.
The fact that i have read, and re-read them all many times and didn’t feel that was being preached at is testament to the author’s skill – i didn’t pick up on ANY Christian themes/refs…. so much so that i’d almost argue that they’re not there…. BUT if Rowling says they are, then who am i to argue with HP’s creator?
Clearly, you can read into things as much or as little as you (the reader) likes. I think the phrase ‘strongly christian series’ is actually quite damaging, it might put people off the books. I’d certainly be put off if i hadn’t already read them.
I dont think religion has ANY PLACE in mainstream entertainment. Religion divides people, good media is supposed to unite people.
Plus, theres totally a lesbian subtext going on. The only reason Hermione gets with Ron is that she can’t have Ginny. And lets face it, Harry is pretty gay throughout the series. It’s why Dumbledore likes him so much.
follow:
LOL, totally out of context of course! That bit of the book (which is, of course, the finale of a strongly Christian series) is about Hermione’s struggle with belief, which she finds difficult in the face of her supremely literal intelligence. That little section follows right after this one:
“But then… do you mean…” said Hermione slowly, and Harry could tell that she was trying to keep any trace of skepticism out of her voice, “that you believe these objects – these Hallows – really exist?”
Xenophilius raised his eyebrows again.
“Well, of course.”
“But,” said Hermione, and Harry could hear her restraint starting to crack, “Mr. Lovegood, how can you possibly believe -?”
“Luna has told me all about you, young lady,” said Xenophilius. “You are, I gather, not unintelligent, but painfully limited. Narrow. Close-minded.”
… and of course, the book goes on to show that Hermione was wrong, that the deathly hallows do exist, and that by making the ultimate sacrifice Harry can save the world from evil.
[Reply]
Mandi replied:
April 5th, 2012 at 7:19 am
Strong Christian series? Talk about taking things out of context!
And of course, I’m sure you’re not insinuating that because Hermione’s unbelief turned out to be wrong (something that was proven wrong by EVIDENCE, by the way) that those of us who don’t believe in God must also be wrong.
If that’s what you’re saying, then it sounds like everyone must believe everything and ALL THE THINGS MUST BE TRUE.
That’s just not the way it works.
[Reply]
Yes, JK Rowling is herself a Christian and after the series was finished, she explained that she had written the book, in part, to mirror her own search for God. The whole series is pretty clearly Christian and became so ridiculously popular because of that satirical article in ‘The Onion’ which somehow convinced some right-wing fundamentalists from the US that it was evil/satanic – basically by taking some of the first book totally out of context (quoting Voldemort as if he were espousing Rowling’s beliefs, for instance). The seventh book, of course, with its very strong Christian content and the dramatic Good Friday/Easter analogies cleared up any doubt about Rowling’s beliefs, even before she had gone public with them.
And no, nobody’s saying that all things ARE true, of course. But that chapter about Hermione’s steps into the scary realm of the unknown is basically exploring the idea that many things MIGHT be true even if they don’t seem, rationally, to be the case.
[Reply]
Mandi replied:
April 5th, 2012 at 8:31 am
I can’t help but feel you’re missing the forest for the trees here.
The point is not whether or not Rowling was a Christian herself. The point is this passage in particular and what it says about blind belief.
Hermione was unwilling to blindly believe in something just because someone said it was true.
And as you say… “the book goes on to show they do exist…” – this points to evidence, not blind belief.
Which again, is the point being made here.
[Reply]
Sure, but nobody’s pushing ‘blind belief’, as far as I know. Except, perhaps, those right-wing fundamentalists, who, from my perspective, have rather missed the point of the Gospel. Hermione does NOT believe in the stone in the passage, and Mr Lovegood is helping her to see that – at that point – she can neither prove nor disprove its existence. She’d like the world to be logical and provable, but it isn’t that way – there’s always more to learn, and much that we don’t understand. I made the comment that it’s taken out of context because whoever produced that image must have deliberately removed the sections immediately before and after, so as to make it seem that she is being rational and logical, when (as is clear from the context) she is simply being challenged to be a bit more open-minded. Which would appear to be JK Rowling’s aim in the chapter as a whole.
[Reply]
Mandi replied:
April 5th, 2012 at 8:43 am
Nobody’s pushing blind belief? That’s the very definition of faith! That’s the foundation of ANY religion, including Christianity.
How can you possibly say that nobody’s pushing blind belief?
[Reply]
“Blind” belief sounds like something random, picked out of thin air, with no grounds at all for believing. The kind of Alice in Wonderland idea of believing three impossible things before breakfast. Perhaps you define it differently. ‘Pushing’ blind belief sounds like the idea of parents insisting that the tooth fairy is true and getting upset when their child suspects it may not be. In that passage from HP which you quoted, nothing is being pushed anyway – Hermione is being invited to consider something outside her current worldview.
As for faith in general, I don’t think people would be willing to die their beliefs if they were truly blind ones. Your perspective may be that they are misguided or wrong, but pretty much everyone I know with any Christian faith (including myself) has been through many periods of doubting and questioning. This is encouraged in most Christian circles, to the extent that it leads people to better understanding of what it is that Jesus came to do.
[Reply]
Mandi replied:
April 5th, 2012 at 9:02 am
Your own holy scriptures define faith as blind belief. Hebrews 11:1.
And let’s face it – it is. You have no proof that God exists. You have never seen him. You have never heard him speak. You have never felt him touch you.
You, and others who share your beliefs (hell, even me, once upon a time), will SAY all of those things have happened. It’s metaphor, allegory, and emotional. Those are not things that can be used in a debate such as this one.
All of this points back to the idea that faith, in its simplest form, is blind belief.
You believe because you feel it, not because you can see it.
[Reply]
Lifewish replied:
April 12th, 2012 at 11:22 am
It’s random in the same way that astrology is random. Any astrologer worth their salt can give a list of justifications as long as your arm for their beliefs. But ultimately they all boil down to:
1) I did it like this and it just felt right; or
2) Someone else did it like this and it just felt right for them.
Skeptics tend to call this sort of belief “blind” because it really doesn’t matter whether astrology is scientifically accurate (it isn’t), predictive (it isn’t) or helpful (your mileage may vary). People will still believe.
Now, any astrologer reading this will probably feel slighted. Obviously there are idiot “astrologers” out there that believe any nonsense, but they’re different! They’ve done the research, they’ve thought things through, they’ve experimented, they’ve analysed.
Unfortunately, if you talk things through with them, it turns out that all they’ve really analysed is:
1) Whether doing it like this feels right to them; or
2) Whether someone else … you get the idea.
That’s roughly the position us atheists are in with Christians. You keep saying that your belief isn’t blind, but when we talk it through with you it all seems to come down to those two points.
Prove me wrong. Lay out a case for belief in terms of concrete evidence or valid logic. Show that belief in God is different from belief in Sagittarius. If you can’t or won’t, but you still want to carry on believing, that’s your prerogative. In that case, though, I’m afraid I’ll be using the phrase “blind faith” for a long time to come.
[Reply]
Lifewish replied:
April 12th, 2012 at 11:23 am
PS I’m gonna be offline for a week or so – I have an exam next week and am (supposed to be) revising frantically. BBL.
[Reply]
I love the HP series, and frankly, i care not if Rowling wrote them with Christian themes and attitudes.
The fact that i have read, and re-read them all many times and didn’t feel that was being preached at is testament to the author’s skill – i didn’t pick up on ANY Christian themes/refs…. so much so that i’d almost argue that they’re not there…. BUT if Rowling says they are, then who am i to argue with HP’s creator?
Clearly, you can read into things as much or as little as you (the reader) likes. I think the phrase ‘strongly christian series’ is actually quite damaging, it might put people off the books. I’d certainly be put off if i hadn’t already read them.
I dont think religion has ANY PLACE in mainstream entertainment. Religion divides people, good media is supposed to unite people.
Plus, theres totally a lesbian subtext going on. The only reason Hermione gets with Ron is that she can’t have Ginny.
And lets face it, Harry is pretty gay throughout the series. It’s why Dumbledore likes him so much. 
[Reply]
Mandi replied:
April 13th, 2012 at 10:43 am
I totally <3 you Sara. Just an FYI.
[Reply]